Naomi Meredith  00:00

In today's episode I am chatting with Kelly Hogan from mathematically and I have been chatting with Kelly a bunch on over on Instagram over the past few years when she had a different instagram name and throughout her different teaching positions. Kelly is a former classroom teacher turned K through six STEM teacher in Long Island, New York. She loves all things math and is passionate about bringing practical and functional math skills into her STEM or STEAM lessons. She is a level two Google certified educator and loves helping other teachers simplify their day through the use of Google technology. When she's not teaching Kelly loves working out and hanging out with her family friends and her husband. And of course, her little Puggle rowdy, this episode was so much fun. And Kelly has such a great experience from being in the classroom and into the STEM space that I know you're definitely going to connect with. And she even has some awesome tips and tricks of what she has done in her classroom that I definitely want to use and mine and I'm sure you definitely want to use in yours. I can't wait for you to listen to this interview. 

Naomi Meredith  01:07

Well, Kelly, thank you so much for being here. today. We're chatting a little bit before this. And you and I have talked over the years and we message each other all the time. And you're so sweet when you tagged me in your stories. So I knew I had a hat? Well, I asked you a while back, I think when I was first launching, well, you'd be a guest. You're like, yes, so they finally got it all together, I figured out how to invite guests, blah, blah, blah. And then I'm just so excited to chat with you and your position because I think your story and I don't know all of it. But I think your story will really resonate with a lot of teachers, because most of us have been teachers who are in the classroom, and then we get thrown into this role. So tell us more about yourself and your background and just how you stepped into your STEAM are STEM will probably say both, but how you stepped into your role.

Kelly Hogan  02:29

So for those who don't know me, I'm Kelly Hogan and mathematically enthuse on Instagram and Teachers Pay Teachers. And to tell you my full STEM STEAM story. I need to go back like way, way back. So before I was in college, I was looking to Yeah, I was looking to be a teacher from as long as I could remember. And I was preparing to go to school for music education. So I was focusing on being a music teacher and being heavily involved in music ensembles that were curricular and extracurricular. But when I got to college, I realized that that was not necessarily the best fit for me. I loved doing music and being part of ensembles. But I realized that as a teacher, I'd be kind of limited in what I was doing with students and impact was important to me. So I graduated from college in 2005, with my bachelor's in elementary education, and in New York State Teachers are required to get a master's degree. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes, after a certain amount of years now. But the time when I graduated, there was no limitation on how many years you had. I think now, once you graduate, you have to have your masters within about three years. So choosing the Masters was hard for me because at the time in 2005, the big push was reading and literacy. And I knew definitively that I didn't want my masters in reading and literacy. So I shopped around for a while. And at Hofstra University where I got my masters from at the time they had a program that was elementary maths, science and technology. Oh, basically. Yeah. So it was Elementary, MSP, and it was lots of integrated projects. One of the things I remember very distinctly about that program was that I had to make a scale model bed for a stuffed animal of my choosing. We had to make board games, we had to write papers about the process. I actually fell in love with math through that program, which is kind of interesting. But I had friends who after we graduated, were getting jobs as the science teacher in schools where science was a push in, or where they were just specializing departmentalized at the elementary level. STEAM and STEM wasn't a thing. It wasn't a job at the time. And I was just kind of using it to enhance my toolbox and my work in my classroom with my kids. I have taught every classroom grade except for second. It's So at some point in time, I have taught everything from K through six. And I was happy in the classroom. And then I ended up teaching math as for about a year and learn that that was not my thing. love math, did not love math is. So I was kind of looking around and thinking about where my next career move would be, what would my shift be. And the district right next door to mine had an opening for an elementary scene teacher. And I read all the ballpoint bullet points on the job and was literally floored. Because I was like, that's the job. That's that's the job I won. So they interviewed in April, I was offered the position a couple weeks later. And then I was appointed in May of 2021. And I have been in that STEAM mindset ever since I've never looked back. But the irony is that if I go back to my high school experience, I always did want to be especially right here. So it was kind of looping back to what I wanted to do without knowing exactly what I wanted to do. So I definitely am in the right space right now. I love my job. And even on my worst days, it's so energizing. So it's the right place for me to be

Naomi Meredith  06:17

Oh, yeah, well, I guess I think really, you're it's a very creative space. And I think your experiences definitely lead us into the STEM position. Because I thought about that, too. Like I had a class. In middle school. I wasn't called STEM because like that term is so new. But it was called technology. But all this stuff was STEM based. So you had all these stations, there's robotics, there was stop motion, there was like these laser cutter things and like, I've always loved science and the hands on stuff. So it just makes sense. Like, so probably stay with you like, oh, this makes sense why I'm in this role, and your masters pretty much is STEM.

Kelly Hogan  06:56

So yes, that that program has evolved. And it's actually now called masters in elementary STEM education. So it's it's really interesting, but I was also always a very love science and technology. So it just, it was the right hat to put on. And it kind of found me at the time that I needed it to find me so I could not be any happier than I am right now.

Naomi Meredith  07:18

Oh, good. I'm so glad. I'm glad it was like a it's a hard but fun transition.

Kelly Hogan  07:23

Yes. Yes, definitely hard. I would yes, definitely describe it as hard. It is.

Naomi Meredith  07:29

Yeah, it's hard. I think being a classroom teacher though before I bet you see those two is super valuable. Because you know how to plan you've obviously taught all the grades. So I think having that experience instead of there's nothing wrong with just jumping into sand. But I think having that background and education and classroom management and planning a lesson and figuring it out really, really helps in your role a ton. I see that a ton for myself.

Kelly Hogan  07:54

100% 100%. I can't imagine coming out of a teacher education program into STEM without having a little bit of classroom time first, because it is amazing how much management it takes.

Naomi Meredith  08:08

Oh, yeah, I that's like the biggest thing. I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's like, wow. It's like sometimes I'm the mean, and I'm not the nicest. Most mostly nice, but sometimes mean. What have been your favorite parts so far? Because I mean, I know you love it, but like, what are your favorite parts about it?

Kelly Hogan  08:31

I don't want to be too cliche and say everything. But to some degree. Yes, it's everything. But the most important things that I would stick with is that every day is exciting. My students love to come into the STEAM lab, I would say that out of the 360 students I serve. Maybe I have two students who aren't engaged when they walk into the STEAM lab a week, which is outstanding, and the energy that they bring in really energizes me. So that is a huge part of it. The 40 minute periods are lovely. They're I actually they're a blessing and a curse, kind of like what you were saying about being me. And it's great to have 40 minutes when it's a tough day for a certain class and you're just trying to muscle through it. And then you get to send them back to their teachers. Like you're being the fun auntie, right. But I also only get to see my students for 40 minutes a week. And that's the downside is that there's so much I always want to do in STEAM that I'm always strapped for time. And then I think seeing every kid at school so I teach all the kids in my school K through six, which means I have a relationship with all the kids in the school I have relationships with their siblings, and so far I've only been there for this is my second year but I'm already really enjoying seeing kids grow from year to year and how they change. And it's really just it's amazing how I was concerned about the show worked periods not being able to build relationships with my students, and you have a different kind of relationship. But it's so long term. And I love that.

Naomi Meredith  10:08

It's so true. Like I was talking to my kids by fifth graders. And I think my first year with them for a second, I'm counting on my hands. Second, third, fourth it, so I knew them since first grade. And it was cool. Like, they're like, We don't remember the person before. I'm like, Well, that's nice. But it's just like, cool to see them over the years. And I have like pictures of them. And it's just like, that is something you don't get always get as a classroom teacher, unless you loop with them, which I don't know why you want to do that. But yeah, it is so cool. I love that. And I didn't know you only taught was that once a week. So how do you structure your projects? That's a big, a lot of people do that. Like that's hard.

Kelly Hogan  10:51

Yes. So to add on to that, I see them 40 minutes a week. And I have one minute between classes.

Naomi Meredith  10:58

What? Yes. Oh, yeah, I need to know what what do you do?

Kelly Hogan  11:02

Which normally means I actually have students waiting outside my room as I'm releasing them. Because as teachers, most of us are on time, if not early. So structure was really important for me. And I knew that in order to be really productive with all grade levels, my structure would have to vary a little bit only seeing them for 40 minutes a week. So my k one, two lessons, especially in the beginning of the year, they get an instant build when they come in, and I have short challenges up on the board where I give them some free build time I give them a material, I try to rotate materials, so they get a new material, usually every month. And they'll have about three problems they need to solve by building something with their materials, then they get a quick brain break, because my little guys need movement. So if I can beam it with what we're doing for the day, I theme it with what we're doing for the day, then I usually have a short video or short read. And then we go back into a challenge. The second half of the year, I stretch out the lessons more to be like one week is our background and plan. And then the next week is our built, then with three through six is a little different. So obviously a lot faster pace because those kids are doing more in depth projects. So they kind of come into a do now and they do now sometimes it's just as simple as get your materials from last week and chat with your group about what your next steps are. And then I do a mini lesson I know I was just listening to I'm not sure if it was your most recent episode, but your structure of your classes, I was doing like the same thing. I'm thinking about the pie piece, right. So you have the the large IPS is not really teacher time. So I do about five to 10 minutes, some weeks, it's honestly just reviewing what we did last week and reviewing hot glue safety because that comes down again and again. And then they'll have about depending on how much talking I do 2020 to 25 solid minutes of building, and then five minutes of cleaning like crazy. And I tried to get them in line early. So really, my time on teaching is about 35 minutes with the cleanup with everything else that's going on. So the Do Now time is super valuable for me in my structure, because it gets them moving and doing something from the moment they walk in the door. And it helps me transition because I only had one minute on the clock between classes. So sometimes when I'm really desperate, I'm very behind with my littles all instead of reading them the book that we're working on problem solving from, I'll play it on YouTube, just to give myself time to set materials as much as I love to read to them. I do sometimes just need the time to swap over from my kids to my little kids, because sometimes my Thursdays especially today happens to be a Thursday when we're talking to each other. And my Thursdays are I have fourth, second. Sixth, second, fifth. So it's a lot of flipping materials all day. And then yeah, yes, yes. So if I could choose, I would love to have all of my fourth grades one day and my sixth grades and other day, but that really wouldn't work in our school. So yeah, so it's similar structure to what you're doing. But my pacing, obviously a little bit different, very similar to your structure. However, our projects from whatever do you talk about on the podcast and seeing you share is that your projects last about a week where my projects my student, my fourth graders finished up their mini golf design project and it took them about probably eight weeks, but it was one session per week. Yeah. So I really have to I have to backwards plan a lot. I have to really think about what I want the end of the project to be where I want it to land. So my sixth graders right now are making playable winter winter carnival games for the week before our holiday break. And they have to Have you done without a doubt by Thursday, December 15? Because we'll start on Friday, December 16. So I really had to count back. And I'm, I'm hoping we'll make it because I gave them more time than last year. We had Veterans Day on a Friday, and we had our school fundraiser on a Friday that the kids were in all days a lot like Field Day. So when I lose a week with them, it's it's a big hit. It's a big Yeah.

Naomi Meredith  15:22

Oh, yeah, it totally is. It is. But I'm glad I appreciate you like explaining that. Because I think, like I said, your situation is more common. Seeing the kids once a week. And I think some teachers, you might have experienced this struggle with like doing a longer project with the older kids just like how do you structure that. And of course, it's not perfect all the time. And you just have to figure out how it will work out. And it's okay, if it takes long. But I think if you have natural breaks in the project, it's probably really doable, carrying it on every week. It's not ideal. But you know, your older kids can handle it, too. So how do you store everything? I'm sure people are asking.

Kelly Hogan  16:04

Goodness gracious, I that is my biggest, I would say the biggest pit in the peach, right. So I have a classroom that prior to my arriving there was converted from what used to be our computer room and a very small science lab into one STEAM classroom. So I have a lot of space, I have about 1300 square feet, which in theory sounds like a lot of storage space. Yeah. However, I do have cabinets, and the cabinets are chock full of stuff from science kits and stuff from donations and storing is really hard. And what I learned last year in my first year was that if I'm having kids do cardboard projects, there needs to be one grade level doing a cardboard project at a time. I learned last year that one of the things that I can't do is have multiple large builds going at the same time. So my fourth grade does a large build the first part of the year, when they're done, my sixth grade right now is doing a large build than my fifth grade will do a large build next, because I have about three or four storage cabinets that I can use for student storage. And beyond that I don't really have storage space. So we do a lot of what I call with the little guys deconstruction project. Yeah, put it up for a day, take it down, we're using paper towel tubes, and we're taking them back down and putting them away. So that really helps with the space management and the project storage. Last year, I made the mistake of doing a couple of cardboard projects at the same time and I was literally buried in cardboard in the lab and I was miserable.

Kelly Hogan  19:20

So I made that change because I just couldn't live like that. I am not comfortable with clutter. And that's been my biggest point of growth in this job is that it is cluttered all of the time. Yeah, my brain is healthy clutter. Yes, it's healthy clutter, and I generally know where things are. But to the untrained eye, it looks like a hot mess.

Naomi Meredith  19:44

Oh yeah, minus two. It's like what I'll say make mistakes get messy and like my room crashed. Like I will say like I have like a big room but also like no storage. So there's just stuff everywhere. Like I have my wife Lillian, you know you're good. Getting a wagon soon. I have a wagon just chillin. I have like, all my stuff I have like I'm cutting. I have my Cricut machines out cutting sticker like that's it's trashed all the time. But it's very, very organized. Is there anything else that surprised you? I mean, the storage your time, like what like coming out of the classroom getting into this, you're like, Whoa.

Kelly Hogan  20:25

I touched on it a little bit earlier. But honestly, it was the amount of classroom management that I took. Because as a fairly established classroom teacher, when I left the classroom to go to AI s already had about 12 years under my belt. And then when I went into STEAM, so now I have 13 years, and I thought, Alright, I have systems, I know my systems pretty well, I feel very comfortable with them. So I thought I had it on lock. And I was just going to walk in and my systems were going to work, and some did, and some didn't. So what I didn't realize was how many more systems I needed last year. And this summer, I spent a lot of time just thinking about systems that would help class run smoother, and create a common experience with clear expectations for my students. So I have even more systems this year than I have probably ever had. And could I use a few more? Probably yes. But it actually it feels a lot better in my classroom this year with more systems. So I would say I have at least twice the amount of systems in place that I did when I was a classroom teacher and I didn't expect it to be that much more.

Naomi Meredith  21:35

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I felt the same way. Because I'm all about classroom management. Ever since I started teaching. I was like the biggest thing I had to work on. So I'm like, huge on that. And I had, there's so many things I did so wrong. My first year like I've had, I think I talked about this, like the crayons, I had a big bucket of crayons, someone ate them and spits them out. Like a lot didn't work. That's not good. But yeah, I totally agree with you. And it just comes with time and how things are moving in your room? And it depends on the project. Sometimes I think I've noticed that for sure. Like, oh, or the grade some grades, do certain things. And some?

Kelly Hogan  22:16

Well, and I was just going to say that. And I think yes, some grades can can manage a lot of materials, some grades can't manage as many materials. And also from year to year. Sometimes the grades are not the same personalities. They're not the same kind of maturity. And I've had to adapt and change some things even from last year that I did, because they just didn't fit with the incoming group. And not because they couldn't meet the expectations. But because the constraints have had to be modified a little bit to require less materials to be used or to simplify some of the building that we were doing or be really specific about how to use scotch tape. Yeah, is something I never thought I would have to teach anyone had to use scotch tape because I I remember using scotch tape as a kid. I am shocked at how many young hands need explicit direct instruction about how to use a tape dispenser. I did not expect that last year, but this year I'm rockin and rollin.

Naomi Meredith  23:16

Yeah, it's like dangling everywhere. Like no, no. Oh, my goodness. Oh, no,

Kelly Hogan  23:20

We were just making parade balloons today was second grade. So I was teaching them that. If we can't rip the tape off, we can use our scissors and we can cut the tape off the dispenser. Because otherwise we'll be there all day trying to take things

Naomi Meredith  23:34

Oh yeah, it's so funny. You said that was one girl I interviewed as Jen, we were talking about tapes. It's a real thing. I never thought seriously. I'm all about the tapes.

Kelly Hogan  23:46

I did last year too. That was one of my other big shockers was masking tape kids who couldn't physically rip the masking tape without like closing it. Like it would just be a string of close tape. And that didn't even dawn on me as a muscular skill until kids started doing it. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I need to teach them how to rip the tape.

Naomi Meredith  24:10

Yeah, we're in the business of life skills right here. If any, they don't learn anything from us, at least they know how to use tape.

Kelly Hogan  24:16

Oh, how do you see they'll be able to wrap a present like you won't believe Oh, yeah,

Naomi Meredith  24:20

Actually have a lesson. I've done that. And the kids got so mad at me. It was like, they had to find the area and perimeter of the wrapping paper that they were doing and how many pieces of tape. They did choose a method and the kids did not like that project like how to give most kids had it like oh, well this is good life skill. I haven't done that in a while but it was interesting. Yeah. Oh, I'm

Kelly Hogan  24:47

sure it was.

Naomi Meredith  24:49

I'm so I know because you okay, you leave the nicest feedback on my TPT store. I always know it's Yeah, and it's just so kind of Yeah. I like oh, you remember Did you realize someone the other day, but I'm thinking other resources, I know you've used what have been some of your favorites of mine, that you've seen success in your classroom.

Kelly Hogan  25:10

I've used a lot of them. My my favorite, honestly, this year is the Makerspace menu. I know you also have an episode that where you talked about that. So I'm gonna plug you for you, people should go back and listen to that episode if they're interested in this. So the Makerspace menu has been a huge time saver for me. When I took the same role. Last year, I always had STEAM budgeting on my mind, and my kiddos thinking differently about their tasks and having some strong constraints in place. And in my mind, I was going to create STEAM lab money thing out, and then I heard you talking about it. And I was like, why am I going to sit down and build this all out myself when I can just get the resource and give myself peace of mind. And it's actually been really great because you have the front of the menu page where you have all of the items set already. So I go in and take out things that I know I either don't have a lot of that I know it's in the past have not used in a way that made sense for the material, or something that just doesn't fit a certain project. And I just have it out. And right now in my classroom. Just this week, I set up like a $1 $2 and a $3 drawer that they pull out of a cart. So that's cool. And what my kids shot like that. So that's been huge for me. And like I said, I've used a lot last year I use the spider web.

Naomi Meredith  26:45

Oh, yeah, you sent me a video. I remember you tagged me the spider polies.

Kelly Hogan  26:49

Yes. So I did that with my Kindergarten last year Kindergarten this year is not quite ready for that. They're very young. They're Yes,

Naomi Meredith  26:56

same.

Kelly Hogan  26:59

Five and six. They're not ready for that just yet. But when we did push pull, we did that last year that was super fun for them. And my students do a board game project and we use a lot of the materials from your seam survival camp board game unit, but what I do is we don't use exterior outdoor materials because we do ours in the winter. Oh, perfect. And the thing I've been using a lot lately is your Google Classroom Google Suite posters and your hot glue gun holsters. So I use them when I'm teaching my students have glue safety because they don't really know a lot about a part of the hot glue gun. And so I have them in Google Classroom for instruction but then I also have them actually framed and hanging up in my lap.

Naomi Meredith  27:42

Other frames.

Kelly Hogan  27:46

Listen, they're printed on cardstock with color they need to stay nice

Naomi Meredith  27:54

Framing the poster that's adorable. Get to so frame.

Kelly Hogan  27:57

Yes, I will frames and command strip frame hangers are like Velcro. Yeah.

Naomi Meredith  28:06

That makes me so happy like I'm so all these like things have helped to save time. I love them, then you tell like that i i was playing around with it for years. And then I was like, How can I make this makes sense for other people. And I just added an update. I don't know if you've used it yet. I just added it like a few weeks ago. But it's like a table. So they have to write down like the items how many and then the the total costs which your your math brain would love and I just added it and my kids are like, Oh, I like this update. I'm like perfect.

Kelly Hogan  28:40

I'm chuckling listening to you because I made one really quick because I want them to have a budget ledger. So my kids have been using a budget ledger with I'm gonna download. I'm gonna download the update because I didn't know it was there.

Naomi Meredith  28:52

No, like they had like a few weeks ago. I'm like, I should probably have this in there. So that's so funny like, well, you. I'm glad I made you proud with my mask.

Kelly Hogan  29:01

Yeah, I was like, oh, we need a budget ledger. Yes. Because it's, it's easier for them to kind of track what they're spending. So that's awesome. I'll download that as I just been printing all of mine from a single project I made for the kids instead of actually adding it to my resources. Not so yeah, so I'll download that. Yeah, I love the menu. And it's great. I love what I love about it. And what I love about having budgeting as a constraint in STEM and STEAM is that having done it without the budget last year going to using the budget this year, the change in the conversations and gathering materials is so powerful and so impactful because they're really evaluating what they actually need versus I'm just going to take it because it's there. And I find that we're creating much less waste because of that as well as as a human being but also as a STEAM teacher waste is really important to me and I'm trying to reduce reuse as much as I can. It's inevitable because we do build out of recycled materials. But I like to think that before we recycle, those materials are kind of getting a second life before they actually become actual recycling or trash. But I do try to reduce waste as much as possible. And the budgeting has really changed that piece.

Naomi Meredith  30:18

Oh, I see that too. And you probably say this, you don't have to restock as much. And it keeps them super independent. Like they have their little list and they're very thoughtful. They're like, Oh, I don't have enough money for this. And like, while you're gonna have to make a choice, like that's how it is, if you're remodeling a house, you don't have unlimited money. That's just, you have to be creative with what you got. I love it, too. I'm like, obsessed, and they don't have the kids laughing like, I'm the banker, and I'm the cash register. I am all the roles, and they just start laughing.

Kelly Hogan  30:51

When I when I framed it for when I started budgeting with the kids was when you decide you grew up, and you might want to be an engineer. Engineers do have constraints like this when they're working for companies to engineer video games. They have a finite budget for that video game, maybe? Yeah, they pitch their idea. And their idea, oh my gosh, it's kind of like my mom. They pitch their idea. And their bosses love it. But then they say, okay, yeah, you can make a mock up for $3,000. And if you can't do it for $3,000, then you can't do it. Yeah. So I'm trying to drive home the message that for those who already know, they have an engineering mindset, and they want to be engineers, that it's not all sunshine and roses, and just making what you want, you have to actually budget and plan. And just think about what you're doing. And that is part of the Engineering Design Process. But and you you might like this, too. So part of my process for them is, after they budget, I also have them write up a plan, I have them write up from third through sixth, they write the first five steps of their plan. So as a group, they'll write what they're doing. And we talked about how we're not writing, get the materials, but we're writing attach cardboard, a cardboard. So after they write the first five steps and their budget, because I am working like one week at a time, they'll submit it to me, I bought a stamp that says building permit approved from Zazzle. It read through their plans, I look at their diagrams and labels. And I look at their budget and just check that their math was right. And I stamp them for approval. And then the next time they come in, they get to shop and they can get whatever change they need and all that kind of good stuff. And it has been so much fun for me honestly, even with the stamp, but it's really changed the way projects are flowing to have those, you know, and some kids for some kids, yes, they don't want to work with a plan in front of them. They just kind of want to dive in and go. So that's why I only said five steps because after those five steps, they are going to dive in and go. But I want them to have something to start with. Because often I found last year that when they didn't have a place to start definitively. There was a lot of I don't like this anymore. I want to start again. And I don't see that as much this year,

Naomi Meredith  33:12

saying, but how does Yeah, cool. I've never thought of having it's almost like writing a how to I never thought of that. That's so smart. And especially carrying it on the weeks for them. They're not Oh, I remember I was going to do this like, oh, that's what I was working on. That is so that is a cool way to plan. That's like that's really good.

Kelly Hogan  33:33

I was in part from hearing the I heart STEAM podcast, she had some ideas that were similar to that and my own thinking about it and then the stamp I just kind of got the idea in my head so I it just really took off and that stamp was not cheap, but it was worth the money.

Naomi Meredith  33:53

Yeah. Well on YouTube everyone so you'll use it a ton. Yes. Well, I appreciate you sharing all this stuff and I'm so excited for I'm no other teachers are gonna want to reach out to you. Because I'm sure that your story is so much like, they're like mine. But do you Where can they find you and do you have anything you want to share with them? Just that they would love?

Kelly Hogan  34:20

Cool. I am mathematically enthuse, which is a really long handle, but I'm mathematically enthused on Instagram. I'm mathematically enthused on tick tock though I don't post as much or interact as much on tick tock, but I consume a lot. And mathematically enthused at Gmail. I do have a blog that I am slowly building at mathematically enthused blog.net and I am super responsive on Instagram. So that's really the best way to get me. But I'm happy to answer any questions that anybody has, especially if they're considering making the change from classroom into STEAM as I'm sure you are and your role is As someone who's also a STEAM coach, so I anyone has any questions anyone wants to figure out how to turn a math lesson into something STEM or STEAM just to put some energy into it. I will talk to anyone I also happen to be an extrovert. So there's, there's no wrong way to contact me. I'm good.

Naomi Meredith  35:21

Well, I love chatting with you. I appreciate you so much. And I'm just excited for this episode and just where your journey and STEM is going to be. So thank you again for being so excited today.

Kelly Hogan  35:35

Thank you for having me. This was a blast.

Naomi Meredith  35:37

Good. We'll chat soon. 

Kelly Hogan  35:40

Yes, yes.