Naomi Meredith  00:00

I can't believe that we have made it to the 50th episode of the elementary STEM coach podcast. When I first launched this podcast in July of 2022, I had no idea how this would make such a big impact in the elementary STEM community. Not only am I able to help teachers like you with your elementary STEM journey, but I've also been able to make some awesome connections with a lot of you and other people who are supportive of STEM education. Thank you so much for being here in this journey. And I look forward to even more episodes of this podcast, and how it grows from here. In turn, I have a special guest to celebrate this 50th episode. We have today, Aaron shepherd who is a software engineer at NASA Goddard. And we had an awesome discussion about his journey and to his career, his passion for STEM and also how to get kids involved. Aaron at first fell in love with science while watching astronauts blast off in the space shuttle, he dreamed of one day building cool technology while floating in a lab in space. later down the road after briefly attending medical school, Aaron decided to chase his childhood dream of working in the space industry. He graduated from Clemson University in 2022, and has since joined the flight dynamics team at NASA Goddard. Aaron currently develops orbital tracking procedures for the Roman Space Telescope, which is scheduled to launch in 2026. This is such a fun episode, and I know that you're going to enjoy it. We had a great time chatting. And again, thank you so much for being here. 

Naomi Meredith  02:16

All right, Aaron, well, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to chat with you. I have met your wife through some fun business connections and that she was telling me what you do with kids. And I was like, “Okay, I have to have your husband, Aaron here on this podcast.” I didn't have you tell me too much before we started recording, because I want to hear it as it comes. I'm so excited to chat with you today. I know the other teachers and the STEM community are going to learn a lot from you. So if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself, your journey to NASA and then what inspired you with the role that you have?

Aaron Shepard  02:56

Okay, yes, thank you so much for having me on. My name is Aaron and I am currently working as a software engineer at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. In particular, I am on the flight dynamics team for the Roman Space Telescope, which is supposed to be the successor to the Hubble and will hopefully launch, fingers crossed, in 2026. My job is to make sure that it doesn't get lost in space on the way out. Yeah, if it gets lost, it's like junk. Yeah, it's kind of kind of my fault if it gets lost. Well, yeah, my journey to NASA has been quite an interesting one. I grew up like every other kid. I was like, “Oh, I want to go to space. I want to be an astronaut. I want to make all the cool stuff that we send out to Mars and Pluto or wherever.” I guess where my story gets interesting is that I grew up in the early 2000s. That was right around the time when they cancelled the shuttle program. So when they cancelled the shuttle program, I kind of bought into all the hype. Everybody in the room was like, Oh, they're canceling the shuttle program. There's not going to be a NASA like space is not the industry. It's not going to exist in 5 to 10 years. I remember when that announcement came out in school, because like I was just like staring at the tile like, “Oh my god, what am I going to do with my life?” 

Naomi Meredith  04:21

Oh, no.

Aaron Shepard  04:24

So I kind of lived a whole another life before like space and NASA. I have a lot of doctors in my family. So I was like, “Okay, I'm gonna go do that.” So I graduated, went to college, did my MCAT, got into med school, and then I remember like, literally being in med school, like in a class, and I was like, not paying attention at all. I was watching one of the announcements. The European Space Agency had just landed on a comet. They were sending back like pictures and videos. I was like, I want to do that with my life. So needless to say, that was a sort of a very long, very introspective journey dropped out of med school. That was fun to explain to my parents. My mom was like, “What!?” Don't worry about I got it. I'm gonna take care of it. It's all good. I dropped out of med school, went back, did another degree in engineering. I was in school for six years. Then while I was in school, I just, I got really lucky. I had people to help me. I had people that believed in me. So I started. I worked at NASA for three summers while I was a student. Then after I graduated, about six months after I graduated, no, not even six months after I graduated. I graduated in May, and then I got my job in like mid-June. So that's great. Yeah. I didn't, I did not think that it was going to work out the way it did. But that's the journey. I guess that it was one of those things that was meant to be, so now I'm living the dream and doing what five year old me wanted to do.

Naomi Meredith  05:58

I was just going to say like little Aaron would be so proud of you.

Aaron Shepard  06:04

Yeah, little Aaron. Little Aaron is looking at big Aaron, like, all right, you're, you're pretty cool. Yeah, it's, honestly, to be a part of the space program, and to hopefully, be a part of something that goes up is one of, I think, the greatest honors in my professional life because not too many people can say that they've done that. So I'm really just, it's, it's not anything that I take for granted. Let's put it like that.

Naomi Meredith  06:33

Oh, yeah, it's so amazing like that. It's just a lot of work and it's a lot of collaboration. All your hard work has definitely paid off. It's just a slow go to. It's not that instant gratification to I mean, you said 2026. So all of this work, and you're just hoping that it will work. Like that's the ultimate STEM project right there. So I'm hoping and 2026 I'll keep my eyes out for your guys's project. I love space. I never wanted to be an astronaut but I'm very interested in space. I actually just finished a space unit with my K through five kids. So we talked about Earth and space and lots of different ways. Fourth grade, we're talking about space junk, we were talking about light pollution in fifth grade. But I'm just so fascinated by it. We have a solar system hanging up and the kids are super into it. It's just so cool. Like, who knows, maybe one of them or a few of them are little Aaron's and they tell me they want to work for NASA or be an astronaut. I'm like, Hey, you can do anything. We need you. We need you. So I just I'm so excited to get into just more of what you do. So when it comes to NASA, what does a typical day look like for you?

Aaron Shepard  07:47

So what's interesting is that I'm actually working remote. So the typical day looks like I wake up. Usually I try to be up around eight o'clock, and I try to clock in around 830 or nine. NASA is a very team oriented organization. So I'm in a lot of meetings. I would say, I have a meeting or two just about every day, Monday through Thursday. Then it just depends on what phase of the project we're in. So I work again with software. So I could be writing new procedures, I could be debugging and troubleshooting old procedures, or, right now, we're in a documentation phase. So I'm writing a document, I'm writing the documentation for all of the programs to explain, oh, this is how you run them. So that way anybody can look at them and be like, Oh, I just need to press this button and that button. What these programs will do is the idea is that they'll pull in tracking data. Long story short, when we're putting the telescope in the same place that James Webb is in. So at that Lagrangian point. That means we can see it from Earth constantly. We have something called the Deep Space Network. So we have stations in California, Spain, Japan and Australia. They're all over the globe. At one point, any of those stations can see the telescope, because again, the globe is spinning. So what we're doing is we're looking at as the telescope is flying overhead of the station, it's pinging where it is to get its location, and then we're running programs to predict its orbit and where it might go and the next. We can do anything from three days to two years.

Naomi Meredith  09:40

Oh, oh, that's a huge span.

Aaron Shepard  09:45

Yeah, so obviously, like as you go out further, it gets a little bit more inaccurate, but it's just to give us an idea. One thing that I wrote that was really cool is when we launch it out, it'll be within range of a network of tracking satellites that we have. So I wrote the procedure to tell the tracking satellites where to look, as the telescope launches out so that we can guess where it's going to be. If something happens at launch, because of course, I'm gonna watch the launch, but if something happens within the first few days, I'm gonna be like, Oh.

Naomi Meredith  10:24

Like, well, it's a team effort, guys. We're team-oriented.

Aaron Shepard  10:28

Exactly, yeah. But again, my day can look like a bunch of different things, and then occasionally actually get to go up to visit the center for testing or for tours. I got to actually see the telescope being built in the cleanroom. That's, like, really cool. It's, it's massive. It's, yeah, it's probably like 3045 feet tall. Like, it's just, it's big.

Naomi Meredith  10:52

Wow. That's so cool. And like with your experience, too, like, would you say? Like, looking back as a kid? Did you have experiences? Do you think that helped you do what you do today? Like you, your adult life for sure. But you're doing so much of collaborating, problem-solving and critical thinking in your daily life, do you think you had a lot of those experiences as a kid that helped you?

Aaron Shepard  11:17

Oh, yeah, from a soft skill perspective. So like collaborating and problem-solving? Definitely. I come from a really big family, so you got to learn how to say what you need. You got to learn how to work with other people and get along. Yeah,

Naomi Meredith  11:31

Yeah, I'm the oldest of five. So I totally get it.

Aaron Shepard  11:34

Yeah. So definitely that and then from just technical skills, like I was always, I was always a big nerd. So I was playing video games all the time, I was working on computers, it was, you know, building stuff, breaking stuff, all that. So I really think that, if anything, it just gives you a mindset of analytical problem-solving. Like I definitely, because I have broken so many things. I just understand the process of navigating problems. 

Naomi Meredith  12:02

Yeah, no, that's good. I think you and it doesn't always work the first time and I'm sure you see that in your job, like you have a lot of iteration and you're going back and you have to make sure like, it's so different doing anything like a program or whatever, but having to write it out explicitly for somebody else, I'm sure you see, oh, ooh, that's not good. Or that will make sense to somebody else. So that's so important to like, I see that with kids. And I think that's so important, why we have STEM because kids will get frustrated. It doesn't work the same, though first time, like, hey, it doesn't always work the first time doesn't even work the 20th time. And that's how life goes. And they get sad that their project isn't the perfect thing by Friday. And like, that's how it goes. Let's wag your hair. So definitely, when you mentioned those soft skills, I totally agree with you. That's really what we're teaching. You probably see that too when you work with kids, how important those soft skills are. So I'm so glad you mentioned that and you're using it in your real job. So yes, yeah. So speaking of what you've done, your wife tells me you went to Jamaica recently. I don't know how that all went down. I know it involves STEM. So what were you doing out in Jamaica?

Aaron Shepard  13:15

So I was part of a program called Passage. It's a really, really cool program. It was started by one of my friends. And his mission is to fly different classrooms, supplies, and science supplies to various countries throughout Latin America and the Caribbean. So he was in the Bahamas. He was in Jamaica. I think he's currently in Colombia right now. And then he goes to like Chile, Argentina. Whoa. And it's a big thing. Like, the program is involved with local governments. So while we were there in Jamaica, we actually met and had like 45 minutes to an hour conversation with the minister, the Ministry of Education, like when I got to meet the Minister of Education. And we had an incredible conversation about how we could leverage modern technology to solidify Jamaica's place as a tech hub in the Caribbean. We got to meet with the US Embassy, we got to meet with multiple universities, some high schools, I think, the aeronautical Institute of the West Indies, like it was a pretty cool experience.

Naomi Meredith  14:26

Oh, did you know you're going to meet all these people when you went down there? Like oh, oh, hello. Oh, hello. Oh, okay. You're high up there.

Aaron Shepard  14:35

Yeah, we knew I think everybody knew, but nobody realized how much gravity or weight this project would have.  On the Jamaica leg, these were real conversations. Like this was an Oh, like, that's a really cool policy that we can implement later kind of thing. It wasn't. At first it was at first it was pleasantries and you know, hi I'm so and so and this is so and so but as time went on like it, it really evolved and after we walked outside that meeting with the minister of education we were like this is a thing. And even now like the, the government of Colombia is like interested the Government of Colombia is promoting the project. And so this is this is gonna carry weight. And hopefully this idea for my friend will be something that propagates throughout the years. So I'm really excited to see what that is going to evolve into. And hopefully, I'm excited to continue being a part of it. Because, again, it was so much fun. We did meetings, we did workshops, I got to surround myself, I like to do a lot of robotics workshops with the kids and get them all like, excited and yellowing. And so it's just such good energy. I really enjoyed that trip. And it's part of for me, it's why I do what I do. Like at the end of the day, I chose this for a reason. And it's because it's it's to inspire and to plant trees whose shade I will probably never see, but that's okay.

Naomi Meredith  16:16

How do the kids respond seeing these types of technologies? Is it often their first time or how do they react? Like what kind of robots do you do with that? And that's a lot of questions I just asked you.

Aaron Shepard  16:28

Oh, yeah. So in general, so outside of the technology that I do, for example, while we were in Jamaica, we did stargazing events. And the last few nights have been great, because it's been a full moon. There's been Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, like so much to see. And for a lot of people on the island, that was the first time ever looking through a telescope. So watching that was just,

Naomi Meredith  16:51

oh, that's cool. I just got chills. That's amazing.

Aaron Shepard  16:57

Yeah, it's, um, and again, like, you don't really think about it until you see it because it's like, this is a telescope. I've got to I've, you know, these are things that are normal to you. But when you realize that it's the first time for somebody else, and you're watching, oh my gosh, like they can see like the moons of Jupiter and the clouds and the wings on Saturn and people are. It's a very powerful thing to witness.

Naomi Meredith  17:23

I've never seen that. So I think I would have the same reaction.

Aaron Shepard  17:28

Oh, yeah. It's actually the first time I looked at Jupiter, I saw the bright red spot. I was like, oh, it's like a NASA thing. Like, that's, I guess they're like, I didn't even like, you see the pictures of it. But it's like, oh, like, there it is.

Naomi Meredith  17:42

Oh, that's cool. Oh, my gosh, I can I can only imagine, especially with kids to, like they want to I mean, without so many things they see on the screen. Like, that's amazing. You see in real life. So was it just like that the whole time with the workshops to just interacting with all of the supplies? Did you just see that same sort of excitement?

Aaron Shepard  18:01

Yes, yes. Usually, when I, I do a lot of robotics work, because the robots are just awesome. They, and in particular, I do. I call them like my telekinetic mind control robots. I have these headsets, they can pick up like how you're thinking like it's not it's very broad. It's not like they can't realize that you're thinking cat. But it can measure if you're really concentrated or if you feel relaxed. And so then I have those headsets mapped to the robot. And so you can drive the robot thinking one way, and you can send it in one direction then you can send it back and the other ones and like usually when I see that kids are like, the look is always like and then when they do it, they're just like, what's

Naomi Meredith  18:54

Oh my gosh, your face right now people can see your face that's so funny. They're just like, “No way!” I would be too. So what does the robot do if you're confused, it just goes in circles.

Aaron Shepard  19:04

They just said it'll stop. It'll like go, it'll like go one way than the other. Like, it's actually like, if you've seen Star Wars, it's good. Like Jedi Mind Training. I got to really think about this. It's such a cool experience. And so this is something that I've been toying with for years. And so I've been demoing it, probably about six years now. And like I've done it, done a whole bunch of kids always love it. Every year. I'm like, should I do something else? And then people are like, no, no, just keep doing that. I'm like, alright, that's what you want. I mean, okay, we can do it.

Naomi Meredith  19:36

Yeah, we don't do that in class. I don't know I've heard of any STEM teachers. If I'm wrong, please message me but I haven't heard of any STEM teachers doing that in class. I don't think we have the robots and the capability for it. We probably don't have the funding to be honest.

Aaron Shepard  19:51

Well, it's not a terribly expensive thing. I mean, I can probably about maybe $300-400 total for everything. Okay, that's actually really good. Yeah, so I mean, and then I built my own versions for on like, probably like 250 300, like parts everything. But then a lot of it was me like, figuring things out and like having to go to the manufacturer and be like, Hey, what's your? What's your Bluetooth protocol? Like, what? How do I interface like I am people are very nice. Usually, if you ask and you tell them what you're doing, they're like, oh, yeah, sure, that's how you do it. But yeah, it's some, my philosophy was STEM has always been to, I'm going for the, I'm going for the wow factor, like, I'm going for the thing that makes you go, I didn't even know this was possible. And then the wow factor for me because like, the reality of what we do, and our field is that, you know, it's like, you sat through math class, it's boring. Sometimes you're like, huh, so if you go for the wow factor, and this is what I tell kids, it's like, it's it's the payoff for doing all of the work. So if you sit through, you pay attention to, like, the math and the physics and all that other stuff, where you're like, Yeah, I don't really care. That knowledge allows you to make really cool stuff. Like a flame thrower that I might be building.

Naomi Meredith  21:12

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, I mean, I'm sure that kids love you. And that's a great point, too. That's a great way to say I was talking to some kids at school the other day, and it made me so sad. And like, what are your favorite subject? I don't know how you're talking about what your favorite subjects were. I don't really ask that question. But anyway, they're saying that science is boring. Not STEM, not my class. Okay. That's a whole other thing. They didn't say my class. But science. I'm like, that makes me so sad to hear that and they are in second grade. And they're all Yeah, it's boring. We just watch videos on my own. No, no, no, no, no. So yeah, I definitely agree with that wow factor and exposing kids to a lot of different things. All of my units are completely different because you never know what a kid is going to connect with. Some kids might like robots some might like building with Makerspace some my like my STEM survival camp units, so you never know what they're going to connect with. So I totally agree, the more obscure the better. Because there's usually no background knowledge, which is great, because they have they have to learn to Yeah, so I love how that's a great philosophy like the wow factor. I love that. Do you? So you do that mind control robots with kids? Do you do other things in the community to help support some education?

Aaron Shepard  22:31

So for the past few years, it's been, I've done like different talks, I usually will do anything from like, overview of robotics. I run a TikTok account. And so I'll do crazy things on that. One video that like went really really well. I don't know if you remember the Oscars. But you know, when Will Smith did the slap thing? Oh, yeah. I like broke it down. Like got out the physics calculated, like how, how hard it was. And it was one of those things where like, it went viral. My mom called me she was like, did you do that? I was like, yes, Ma, she was like, That's hilarious. And so many comments, because I do try to go through my comments. So many comments were like, wow, like, I didn't even know, like, I'm gonna pay attention in class now. Like, this is awesome. And that's what I'm going for.

Naomi Meredith  23:23

That's so okay, I'm gonna have to find that. And then I'm gonna link it in the show notes for this episode, and then we'll watch it.

Aaron Shepard  23:31

Yeah, I'll definitely I'll send it to you. But I'm always looking for anything that I do. Like, sometimes it's hands-on. Sometimes it's just talking, I've done everything from talks on robots to talk like I've done talks on like all the African American astronauts, it just really depends. But my bigger kind of overarching goal, like the thing that is pushing why I do, what I do, is that I want to promote science, literacy and science appreciation. So I'm not an artist, but I have an appreciation for art, I can look at it, I can understand the basic themes. Like, I'm sure you've done the same thing where like, you've gone to the museum, and you can be like, Oh, well, this is, uh, this is impressionism, or this is a representation of the blah, blah, blah, that happen so and so time ago, but it just helps to shape a broader mind. And that was really like, I really noticed that during the pandemic, when we were not a scientifically literate society, and we paid for it. So that's when I was like, okay, like, like, let's, let's kind of personalize science. Let's make it something that people are at least familiar with. I'm not saying that every kid has to be a scientist, but every kid should be able to look at science and be like, okay, and have a profound respect for it.

Naomi Meredith  24:48

Oh, absolutely. All of my STEM lessons actually start with the science concepts and then weave in everything else because that's just how you like what we talked about. We're exploring the world in different ways, and it's super important. written. And yeah, this is just part of just you being a human. So that's really great. And that's funny too about the art that I was just talking about this with my fiancee this morning. He teaches high school Spanish, so completely different. And he was he's teaching about art right now and Spanish. And this is so horrible. I was like, Why do you even teach that? And I even really liked that comment, but he said exactly what you were saying. Like just to be a more well rounded and you know, and he's like because I've taught you you know what a Botero is and what it's showing. And I'm like, Yeah, that's true. So I probably shouldn't have said that wasn't very nice to me. But it was 5 am in the morning, so I wasn't very happy.

Aaron Shepard  25:44

Yeah, that's, yeah, I think so. All of Alexis' teacher friends, for instance, but one year, you know, back, especially when I was young, and I just like a little bit more, you know, I have a little bit more spunk to me. And I would just kind of, I hadn't really been broken in yet. I don't know what we were talking about. But I think I got upset or something. And I was like, so what, you teachers get summers off anyway? Like, why are you complaining? Yeah, She had whipped around so fast. And I was like, I shouldn't have said,

Naomi Meredith  26:18

like, yeah, yeah, you know what? I'll, yeah, that's a whole other that's a whole podcast in itself.

Aaron Shepard  26:23

Oh, those are fighting words. I quickly realized that that was just like, oh, like, if you could have seen the look on her face, I was like, I'm scared.

Naomi Meredith  26:35

That's pretty funny. So sweet. Well, we know what not to say to teachers. But do you have any advice for kids or teachers that could be separate or the same to help encourage them to help dream big, whether it isn't STEM, you have great philosophies in STEM in general, and I hope people reach out to you, but what advice do you have?

Aaron Shepard  26:58

This just comes from my own personal philosophy, I am a big-picture, then-details kind of dude. And so whenever I'm like trying to teach something, or like when it comes to the subject of teaching STEM, I'm always thinking about the applications. Because at the end of the day, that's what we're really in it for. I don't really care about the Pythagorean theorem, just for the sake of it. I mean, there are some people that do, and that's great. And they make great mathematicians. And yeah, I understand that if I know Pythagorean theorem, then I can, you know, write this control policy for my spider robot because, guess what, it makes a big triangle. And so I can model it that way. You know, I may not necessarily, I don't really care about differential equations for the sake of differential equations. But if I'm modeling a spacecraft that's coming into the atmosphere, and it's got to break and land, otherwise, you lose this billion dollar probe, then all of a sudden, my interest in my investment is hiked up a little bit more. So I'm always like, start with the end, and then build out from there. When I am teaching STEM, when I think about teaching STEM, I'm always focused on the applications first because that's what creates the investment. And that's what makes it stick to people or stick with people.

Naomi Meredith  28:15

I think that's really great advice. And just that we're not doing arts and crafts all day that there is that real world application. And even if it even that, if the application is simple, thinking about a five-year-old, that's gonna look way different than with a high school teacher, but all kids can learn now they're all capable. There are applications to everything that we're doing and everything we're teaching, but there's so much in STEM. And I think just how STEM education is evolving in the elementary space, just taking it to the next level, having it be rooted in science and math and engineering concepts where we're not just playing with Legos today. Or we're we all just building with blocks? Like there's a purpose behind there's so much opportunity and just a bigger picture as to what we're doing. So I think that's really good advice coming from someone who works at NASA, and you apply these skills that are really good to hear. That's something definitely, as teachers, especially in the STEM space, should be doing so. Yours. I could talk to you all day, and you can get Alexis back on No, just kidding. No, but where it gets teachers to find and connect with you. You have a bunch of places they can reach out to.

Aaron Shepard  29:25

Ah, yeah, all my handles are the same. @Spacecadetshep, that's Instagram, Twitter, and TicTok. I don't know if I'm going to stay on Twitter too much longer, but that's another conversation in and of itself. But yes, I try to make myself pretty available. And again, my thing is, my big thing in STEM with teachers with students is applications and then collaboration like at the end of the day, like this is a science is it is a collaborative thing. So as I think the image of like the lone dude in his garage, first of all, that's not that's inaccurate for numerous reasons. One, it doesn't have to be a dude, it can be, it can be a woman, it, you know, scientists can look so many ways but then too it's a very like group oriented collaborative project. And so again, I'm just about connecting and building the community, and just even being a conduit to other people in the community or, like, the passage program where like, they're literally some of the best and brightest people in the business of STEM and science communication. And so just being able to bridge all that together is that's my MO.

Naomi Meredith  30:43

I love it is super inspiring, and I appreciate you doing what you're doing and supporting STEM and just helping just bring that to light. And we need more people like you out there. Aaron. Thank you so much for being here today. We appreciate I know other teachers gonna love hearing from Euro. There are so many great, I was taking notes the whole time. So thank you so much again for your time, and we'll chat soon. Thank you.

Aaron Shepard  31:10

Yes, thank you for having me. It was it's always so much fun to do things like this. And yes, I I have enjoyed every second of it. And I just love talking STEM. I love the education part of it. The technical part. Love it all. Like it's so incredible.

Naomi Meredith  31:27

Same here. I could do it all day, man. I pay to pretty much do so I got it. Oh, thank you again.

Aaron Shepard  31:34

Yes, thank you.